tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13388361.post6055651071076991240..comments2023-10-24T05:17:13.671-07:00Comments on Spooks By Me: Long post that probably no one will comment onK. Lorraine Grahamhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03974374662095094031noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13388361.post-13159140257222143052007-02-16T07:06:00.000-08:002007-02-16T07:06:00.000-08:00well, regarding procedure and the 'chance' stumbli...well, regarding procedure and the 'chance' stumbling across historical precedents after a work has been completed (your example being the procedural translation of a chinese character only later to find out about pound/orientalism, etc) is something that i too had happened 'early' on. perhaps it is an inevitable thing. by that i mean to say, and this will not be precise, a certain kind of intelligence will be drawn to certain forms. it seems reasonable that these intelligences cannot get too far away from each other. this isnt to suggest a continuum, rather a rubber-band ball with a certain amount of predefined energy, and the occasional band sticking out and new ones being added.<BR/><BR/>yeah, im not sure this did what i want it to. <BR/><BR/>blog casual,kevin.thurstonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13063331459309666242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13388361.post-38815423235909287482007-02-15T17:23:00.000-08:002007-02-15T17:23:00.000-08:00And also, all this:Combining procedural techniques...And also, all this:<BR/><BR/><I>Combining procedural techniques and an awareness of the relationship between structure and meaning with any content you and Google can find (and any other substitutions & changes you want) and then delivering it all in a poem packed with satire and a good dose of New York school wit and energy on the level of the line (and possibly a performance that emphasizes artifice)</I><BR/><BR/>doesn't happen only in flarf poems, nor does it happen in all flarf poems equally well. This is a description of the contexts I think flarf tends to work with.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps "threatening" isn't quite the word I mean, although I'm not sure what to substitute. Flarf does seem to create conversations that frequently enough end up as debates. I say "flarf" on my blog and suddenly I have like 150 more people reading it--even though I don't think this post is necessarily one of the more interesting ones I've written.<BR/><BR/>But speaking of this post, what do you all think of my other, more interesting thoughts relative to other contemporary procedural work?K. Lorraine Grahamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03974374662095094031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13388361.post-67342516682547169102007-02-15T08:04:00.000-08:002007-02-15T08:04:00.000-08:00Hey Guys, thanks for reading. I was thinking mostl...Hey Guys, thanks for reading. I was thinking mostly of the recent conversation on Jessica's blog when I wrote this, as well as Gary's defense of satire, and conversations from outside blogland.K. Lorraine Grahamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03974374662095094031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13388361.post-8926299104183148662007-02-15T05:17:00.000-08:002007-02-15T05:17:00.000-08:00Combining procedural techniques and an awareness o...<I>Combining procedural techniques and an awareness of the relationship between structure and meaning with any content you and Google can find (and any other substitutions & changes you want) and then delivering it all in a poem packed with satire and a good dose of New York school wit and energy on the level of the line (and possibly a performance that emphasizes artifice) is clearly threatening.</I><BR/><BR/>kind of spring-boarding off of ryan (suppose we're off the same generation, since we both latched on to this) to whom is flarf threatening? and when that gets answered, i hope the why becomes apparent.<BR/><BR/>hope you enjoyed yer trip. it turns out it is cold in the midwest during winter.kevin.thurstonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13063331459309666242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13388361.post-70774741552605859752007-02-14T17:18:00.000-08:002007-02-14T17:18:00.000-08:00ok, maybe flarf is threatening cuz "Chicks Dig War...ok, maybe flarf is threatening cuz "Chicks Dig War" would be threatening if it were published in the Washington Times. so I guess it's all about context and access. things aren't threatening out of context, and aren't threatening even when they're in books of poetry. but if it were on cereal boxes... hey wasn't that a dada move? oh shit that just goes back to your "being let in." I'm going to go try and write poems again. I would like them to threaten me a little, or else sing me into a long, deep contented slumber.Ryan W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01945769909647155149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13388361.post-74706066588970330352007-02-14T16:58:00.000-08:002007-02-14T16:58:00.000-08:00of course, your statement that "I don't think poet...of course, your statement that "I don't think poetry really takes over anything" is consistent what I'm saying about the non-threat. actually I think poetry is a slow threat, a very slow threat.Ryan W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01945769909647155149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13388361.post-12822047611304424332007-02-14T16:56:00.000-08:002007-02-14T16:56:00.000-08:00hmm, I think someone asked what an RBI was, and Lo...hmm, I think someone asked what an RBI was, and Lorraine very reflexively answered about what an RBI was, and Mark was proud. <BR/><BR/>I agree with just about everything in this post, if it even makes sense to say I "agree" with it, except for the statement that flarf is threatening. I can't think of anyone who would find flarf threatening. it wouldn't even cross my mind to find it threatening, nor do I imagine other poets or some "establisment" finds it threatening. I almost feel like it's a gesture that contains within it acceptance about the fact that nobody will be threatened, and that's part of its poignancy. it's like a protest that knows nobody will care. that's kind of the feeling I get. Even something like "Chicks Dig War" -- that's flarf, right? -- as sublimely right on as it is about things... it's not threatening to anyone, is it? tho I guess it depends on context. if I read it at a family reunion, people would be so threatened that they wouldn't even know they were threatened. they would probably just call it "rude."<BR/><BR/>I wasn't around for Dada -- were people threatened? did dadaists imagine people were threatened? <BR/><BR/>Gary's comment is interesting to me b/c it reminds me that nobody talks about "satire" as such anymore, as a general heading -- not that I can see -- probably in part because of flarf.Ryan W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01945769909647155149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13388361.post-77540893134927231392007-02-14T15:13:00.000-08:002007-02-14T15:13:00.000-08:00Comment: this is too long to read. Happy Valentin...Comment: this is too long to read. Happy Valentines Day!!mike chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17952891057048138884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13388361.post-1869100606198912822007-02-14T08:38:00.000-08:002007-02-14T08:38:00.000-08:00Thanks for this post, Lorriane.Satire is an intere...Thanks for this post, Lorriane.<BR/><BR/>Satire is an interesting word that sometimes seems to divide people, especially poets. I know some for whom the word is a sort of a dismissal. When I was doing a global satire workshop at the Project, I mentioned to someone of my wanting to include a particular Russian fiction writer in the line-up, and was told, very adamantly, that the writer was "so much more than a satirist."<BR/><BR/>It's not that I disagreed with that, just that it did not make this writer any less of a satirist.<BR/><BR/>So I appreciate those for whom satire is not a bad word or somehow beneath the domain of poetry. Rodrigo Toscano is someone who uses it to describe at least some of his own work. But, he is also someone with a very good sense of the history of satire and poetry--he knows, in other words, that these are not mutually exclusive kinds of writing, certainly not historically.<BR/><BR/>My own sense of what I might label satire or satirical may be broader than some people's, and probably broader than the official definition of satire. I include among living people who have at least somewhat of a satirical bent: Johanna Drucker, Charles Bernstein, Rod Smith, Mark Wallace (hi Mark!), David Bromige, Pamela Lu, much of written (and visual & conceptual, for that matter) dada, Fluxus, Ron Padgett, Rob Fitterman, Kim Rosenfield, Lytle Shaw, Bob Perelman, Carla Harryman, Kenward Elmslie, Jerome Sala, Lin Dinh--on and on.<BR/><BR/>Some of these people may not like being called satirical or satirists, and I know that, while they "technically" may not be satirists, I see lots in what they do and how they do it in common with satire as it's generally understood at least in the history of Western lit.<BR/><BR/>Okay, enough of my blah, blah, blah. Suffice to say I appreciated reading this.Garyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06115441682219034891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13388361.post-10096446733976879692007-02-13T14:12:00.000-08:002007-02-13T14:12:00.000-08:00I think it was probably October, and I think the e...I think it was probably October, and I think the event might have been the World Series. That, or an earlier round of the playoffs.mark wallacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10047292022080114501noreply@blogger.com